M-set is halluncinatory (was, Re: basic Mandelbrot question)

[Minus XVII]

that depends upon the level of "magnification" that you do,
as well as on the round-off errors.

there's no way to avoid the latter, unless you might
by using arbitrarily long-precision software, like ubasic. in other
words,
the floaiting-point spec (IEEE-755, and -855, I think), and
the hardware & software implimentations,
are inherently chaotic.

isn't it funny, that ol' Benoit never bothered to ask any engineers
at IBM, just down the hallway, about this?

(I asked him this at a "general audience" lecture he gave
at UCLA, some years ago .-)

--What is the boundary at which the ray first leaves the Mandelbrot
set? He calculated it on an Excel spreadscheed at somewhere between
(0.35, 0.35i) and (0.350375, 0.350375i); I got it down to somewhere
between 0.350175 and 0.350176. But I was suspicious of both answers
because I thought Excel might be truncating digits....
--Once it leaves, does the ray ever reenter the Mandelbrot set?

--les Protocols de George Elder chez Kyoto!
http://tarpley.net/bush8.htm
http://larouchepub.com/other/2002/2903_chapter_11.html
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html

[w***@gmail.com]

<<that depends upon the level of "magnification" that you do, as well
as on the round-off errors>>

Understood that chaos means there's no ultimate answer; just looking
for a neighborhood. Given that my son is 14, let's say that anywhere
between 3 and 6 digits of precision is fine.

The second question--does the ray reenter the set?--was prompted by
weird data away from the boundary. In a sense, a protractor alone
might suffice to answer, but I was wondering if there was a way to
prove this algebraically.

[w***@gmail.com]

p.s.

I did not know trolls lurked in the crannies of Mandelbrot sets. They
deny they're trolls, and they deny the set exists....

back to math!!

Post by w***@gmail.com
<<that depends upon the level of "magnification" that you do, as well
as on the round-off errors>>
Understood that chaos means there's no ultimate answer; just looking
for a neighborhood. Given that my son is 14, let's say that anywhere
between 3 and 6 digits of precision is fine.
The second question--does the ray reenter the set?--was prompted by
weird data away from the boundary. In a sense, a protractor alone
might suffice to answer, but I was wondering if there was a way to
prove this algebraically.

[w***@gmail.com]

--What is the boundary at which the ray first leaves the Mandelbrot
set? He calculated it on an Excel spreadscheed at somewhere between
(0.35, 0.35i) and (0.350375, 0.350375i); I got it down to somewhere
between 0.350175 and 0.350176. But I was suspicious of both answers
because I thought Excel might be truncating digits....

I've discovered Mandelbrot Explorer--looks like my son's rough answer
was much better than my feeble attempt to be precise.

What I didn't expect was that the ray would be going thru a cloud (I
realize the set is continuous, but it sure looks like a cloud).

[m***@gmail.com]

this isn't me, it's Minus17. Benoit is the one
who was hallucinating.

anyway, after I asked the question,
Mandelbrot began to beg it with a whine
about his cold & accent, but then said that,
when he switched the machine to "quadruple precision,"
it "blew up!"

or, that could be Bleu Oopscreen.

Post by w***@gmail.com
I did not know trolls lurked in the crannies of Mandelbrot sets. They
deny they're trolls, and they deny the set exists....

--les Protocols de George Elder chez Kyoto!
http://tarpley.net/bush8.htm
http://larouchepub.com/other/2002/2903_chapter_11.html
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html

[echo]

That's really interesting. I watched the PBS TVshow on Mandelbrot
Fractals last night I wondered if the fractals were hypnotic, but
hallucinatory seems better; peraps fascinating also, which seems to go with
hypnosis. Hallucinatory might go with dreaming.
One guy said the stars just going on and on forever was like a Mandelbrot
Fractal.
I thought one person said that a Mandelbrot Fractal does not repeat
itself, but is always slightly different. Is that true? I noticed one
pattern seemed to repeat itself five or six times, and then turn into a
different pattern.
I think Arthur C. Clark said the Mandelbrot Fractal patterns just repeat
for infinity. How does he know? Has anybody every tried running a fractal
pattern for a year or so on a high-speed computer?
The Mandelbrot Fractal patterns remind me most of Indian art.
I noticed that repetitive music was played along with the Mandelbrot
Fractals, and I wonder if their could be a Mandelbrot sound fractal? Has
anybody tried making fractals with sound?
Then I went to a website and saw Sierpinski's Triangles. I was wondering
if the size of the triangles could vary chaotically and/or repetitively in
each recursion? Why do the triangles in previous recursions have to stay the
same size?
I am also wondering if anyone has ever tried to create 3-D Mandelbrot
Fractals?
Some people say the universe ultimately has a musical character. But it
looks like it has a Mandelbrot character. Could their be any relation
between music and fractals?
I have reached 9 questions. Shall I generate a program that will repeat
them forever on this post?

[Minus XVII]

it is very simple:
the process of "magnification" can go-on
for ever;
it depends upon the implimentation of the FLOPs
in hardware & software, as to what you get;
what you get is always "baroque," so
it sorta looks the same.

essentially,
the FLOPs themselves are inherently chaotic;
this may go with what you said,
"seeming to repeat a few times, then
switch to a new pattern."

thuw quoth:
I thought one person said that a Mandelbrot Fractal does not repeat
itself, but is always slightly different. Is that true? I noticed one
pattern seemed to repeat itself five or six times, and then turn into a

different pattern.


--les Protocols de George Elder chez Kyoto!
(emmissions-trading scheme online in USA as of Feb.12)
http://tarpley.net/bush8.htm
http://larouchepub.com/other/2002/2903_chapter_11.html
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html

[Conspiracy Secretary]

Post by echo
That's really interesting. I watched the PBS TVshow on Mandelbrot
Fractals last night I wondered if the fractals were hypnotic, but
hallucinatory seems better; peraps fascinating also, which seems to go
with hypnosis. Hallucinatory might go with dreaming.
One guy said the stars just going on and on forever was like a Mandelbrot
Fractal.
I thought one person said that a Mandelbrot Fractal does not repeat
itself, but is always slightly different. Is that true? I noticed one
pattern seemed to repeat itself five or six times, and then turn into
a different pattern.
I think Arthur C. Clark said the Mandelbrot Fractal patterns just repeat
for infinity. How does he know? Has anybody every tried running a
fractal pattern for a year or so on a high-speed computer?
The Mandelbrot Fractal patterns remind me most of Indian art.
I noticed that repetitive music was played along with the Mandelbrot
Fractals, and I wonder if their could be a Mandelbrot sound fractal?
Has anybody tried making fractals with sound?

My argument for the whole fractal universe question is why was the first
time I saw these images while I was tripping on Mushrooms. Could it be
that we need the drug in order to fully understand the math?

If you can see the fractals without the mushrooms, like I can now, it makes
the day to day tasks in life seem extremely repetitive. I'm ready for the
fractal of life to change... its supposed to be different every time, they
just say a little, but I think that you can bend it so that there is great
change from the fractal we are in, to the one that we're zooming in on.

If more people were able to see the fractal "perfection" of the math, and
realize that this is how god thinks! This was the original language.
You've stumbled onto the matrix of creation and nobody gets it.

omega = omega*omega+speed of light

z=z*z+c

please someone smarter than me, someone that knows all the numbers but sees
none of the poetry, please the answer is 42

number 6 (the number of man) times number 7 (the power of god) = 42 (Homo
Spiritus) (or jesus evolution)

I just saw Pi ( the movie ) been waiting to see it for a bunch of years and
all I can say was that movie would have messed me up real good when it
first came out. I had many realizations that needed to be felt
individually, had I felt them all at once by watching the movie my head
would have popped. LOL.

Thanks for the space to have a 4th dementional rant.

Conspiracy Secretary